Exactly. None of these meds stop anyone from eating cake or drinking soda. We still make that choice.
It's just like the Star Bellied Sneetches. The thin and fit feel superior and resent that the people they looked down on can now get help becoming fitter and thinner. Those are the traits they use to feel above others, which is why they call it cheating.
Exactly this. When did any of this turn into a competition?
My wife dropped about twenty pounds in three months and my sister-in-law got snippy about it. Then she started talking about unknown long-term effects of these meds. That comment stood out since she's over three hundred pounds in her early fifties with a poor diet and no activity. Seems like that should be her bigger worry.
It was easy for me to trade the obesity risk for the grey-area risk.
Your story reminded me of something a friend said: it's great you've lost weight and look good, but now people keep asking her if she would consider trying one too. She tried and had digestive issues, and now it feels like the rest of us get extra judgment, like why are you still carrying extra weight when there's a solution. I hadn't thought of it that way before. It's hard not to tell everyone about my results, especially now that I'm seeing changes at my current dose with steady progress and only a bit left to reach a hundred pounds down. I once thought that was impossible. I promised myself when I started the grey route that I'd share the path only if asked, but I'm not responsible for other people's choices or getting blamed if something goes wrong. I don't want to lie but I'm not broadcasting it either. The people closest to me know and support me because they know how careful I am with research.
There's no way for me to keep it private since I've moved between powerlifting weight classes for years. It's obvious, but I've always been open to telling people about what I do if they ask politely.
I'm wondering if she tried more than one.
It's not the most unreasonable thought, but it's still odd to assume someone else can afford the solution, especially when talking about legitimate prescriptions rather than other routes. People really should just mind their own business. If someone isn't using these meds they have their reasons, and even if I don't agree with every one it's still their body.
Answer: tool. I haven't told anybody because it isn't their business. I've lost fifty pounds and nobody has said anything to my face. I'm still large and imposing and my give-a-rip level is pretty low.
Or maybe the doctor started her on too high a dose too quickly. I wish I'd saved that study someone posted showing how many people quit at what dose and how early. It showed a lot of doctors were jumping people straight to the max dose in the first week, and no surprise they had problems. Even my husband was started at double the usual beginning dose. If I hadn't already gone through it with my mother I wouldn't have known to have him start at the lower amount for the first four weeks.
Yep. Judgy behavior is exactly where this is heading. These meds are in my neighborhood now and it's like that South Park episode. The talk is all about who's on what and why someone's husband can't get a prescription. It's been interesting.
Yes to all of that. For the regular prescription side it depends on income levels. The people with money will find a way. If not through a prescription then word spreads about compounding places. It's funny how the grey route blurs the class lines. People should mind their own business. It will probably become like Botox in some circles, something everyone is assumed to have had, like braces.
This idea that the only honest way to lose weight is through endless hours in the gym is ridiculous. If you're obese and want to change that, whatever long-term approach works for you is the right one. Obesity usually comes with other health problems and raises cancer risk. I ignore the noise calling it cheating. After staying at a healthy weight for years I gained a lot after a serious assault by someone who then became my ex. I found these meds after being diagnosed with an obesity-related chronic illness. Now I'm back to a healthy size and the illness is in remission. I want to keep it that way. No one else gets a say in how I handle my health except my doctor. Anyone who thinks they do is wrong and will be told so. Wishing everyone success on their own paths.
Exactly, and if this is cheating then so is flying to New York instead of driving. That comparison came from my doctor.
I kind of love that and might use it myself.
I've finally lost enough that people I haven't seen in a while notice. My usual reply when they ask how is 'drugs.' I like the shock value. My wife finds it funny how little I care about telling people. Most of them laugh and then say they need to work out. I'm curious how the fitness and food industries convinced everyone that gym time is the main key to weight loss instead of what you eat.
Don't you think the gym-equals-results idea lines up with calories in calories out? If you're American that 'success only through hard work' mindset is our national story, even though it's not true at any level. It's the rugged individualism thing. Anything else gets called cheating. I reject the whole cheating idea.
Yeah it is calories in calories out but the real issue is people have no idea how much work it takes to offset one double cheeseburger. Their whole gym session can be wiped out by two sodas. When someone asks I tell them the simplest way to lose ten pounds is to track everything you eat. You don't even have to try to eat less, just seeing the numbers makes most people cut back. They look at me like I have two heads and then start talking about ten thousand steps.
Here's one reason for it. A big soda company has funded scientists who push the idea that exercise matters more than diet for weight. They've been promoting that view since at least the eighties.
Most people really don't understand how much activity it takes to burn off what they're eating. They also don't realize it's mostly about food choices and only partly about movement. Ten thousand steps makes my head explode. Please don't say that around me again.
People label me as lazy and overweight when carrying extra pounds. Working to drop them draws complaints about my meals, activity levels or daily habits, along with claims that the approach is mistaken and bound to flop. Choosing medication or an operation brings accusations of missing the self-discipline to manage alone. Every possible route to shedding weight attracts the same negativity. I kept the reasons centered only on myself instead of others. In the end I am the one facing my reflection each morning.
To me the people who only eat the 'healthy' stuff are the ones cheating. If I forced myself to eat only the bland food they eat I'd probably be thin too.
As many have said, cheating what? I'm not an athlete and not held to any standard. I could use every substance on the banned list and it wouldn't matter. I'm doing what I need to survive and feel better. I don't care what anyone else thinks. If someone wants to judge they can stay out of it. The world would be better if we just supported each other, and when someone loses a lot of weight the only comment would be congratulations.
Using performance-enhancing substances shouldn't be called cheating for regular people. You're not a pro athlete, your only competition is yourself. Just try to improve a little every day. Most people who call anything like this cheating either don't understand how these compounds work or they're scared to try and jealous of the results. You still have to put in the work. Don't let haters get to you.
My two cents is that the media plays a big role. Any athlete caught gets headlines and the public thinks in quick sound bites. Once the message is that these things are bad the thinking stops there. Being jealous of someone using them is like being jealous of a fentanyl user, which doesn't make sense. They're harming themselves so why would anyone envy that. It might just be lack of knowledge or lack of curiosity. That could tie into the grey market angle too. Not everyone will choose that route and maybe that's fine. I don't see using these meds as the same as doping. That comparison plus two dollars gets you a coffee most places.
One of my less popular views is that I do group these meds with other peptides and research compounds from a harm-reduction and education standpoint. The risk level is obviously different. I'm fine saying one is safer than certain steroids. Either way you're introducing something external to help the body perform better than it would on its own. I also don't attach any moral judgment that makes one option good or bad. The media point is spot on. We let it do too much of our thinking instead of using it to spark our own. To clarify, I don't think people are jealous of the usage itself so much as the results. The skepticism might point to weaker decision-making or critical thinking, which could mean some folks are better off not exploring these options.
Every medicine we take introduces a foreign substance to help the body work better. Even food and water do that in a way. The fact is some people are just unpleasant and will judge you no matter what you do.
Yeah that's spot on. Folks who appoint themselves as moral judges will come after you for carrying extra weight just as hard as they would for lifting to look better or for using any kind of medication. It just drains you to try satisfying people who have nothing to do with your own path. I wouldn't equate it straight to drinking water, but the point stands that when you're properly informed or lucky enough to have a doctor involved, adding something to improve daily life is basically the same as any other treatment or procedure meant to extend or upgrade how you live. I remember hearing that hemlock grows naturally while an appendectomy does not, yet one is clearly the better choice for people.
Anyone quick to judge should not be wearing glasses or contacts and had better not be on blood pressure meds, ED meds, or insulin. When I do bother arguing with people who trash GLPs, pointing that out usually stops them cold.
Or driving a car instead of a horse and wagon. Or using the wagon instead of walking everywhere. Solid comparison, I'll be borrowing it.
This is the most ridiculous take I've seen on the GLP-1 forum in a while, and I've come across some strange comments.
No it does work. The real question is how long someone can keep doing all that plus the other problems that come with old-school dieting, which really only suits people trying to drop about ten pounds.
No, this is still the most ridiculous thing I've read. You don't believe in medicine? You never use any outside substance to treat conditions or diseases that would otherwise run their course and kill you?
It fails for most people, which is exactly why we're here. I could eat the same calories before Tirz and gain weight. Those same calories now and I lose or hold steady. These meds do far more than just adjust CICO.
It works for losing ten pounds, which is what the original comment was about. Most diets succeed in the short term. The issue is always how long the results last. Some of the early drop on GLPs looks like earlier diet attempts, but the big difference is the weight stays off once the underlying GLP deficiency is handled.
No, not every diet works. And that's not what he meant. He claimed simply tracking calories makes people eat less. As if keeping a food diary alone does the trick. Might as well just tell everyone to use willpower. You're defending the view that GLPs count as cheating and are like PEDs, so just say that.
I'm only talking about ten pounds. You're discussing something different. There are also the physical and emotional costs of repeated yo-yo dieting, so even short-term losses carry questions. Even people who dislike the Atkins diet admit it produces weight loss. The ongoing problems are duration and the price paid.
We live in a world full of processed food engineered to hit our dopamine systems. That is why I used to binge, feeling good while eating then awful afterward. GLP meds help regulate that dopamine-driven behavior and level the field when food itself is designed to push weight gain. There's still heavy stigma around anything medical, including mental health and weight. These are tools for better health and may bring other benefits too, like the trials on similar compounds for alcohol issues.
There seem to be just as many theories about how GLPs work as there are about regular diets. One idea is that the GI slowdown and discomfort act as negative reinforcement. Different factors probably matter for different people depending on their biology and surroundings.
Thanks, that was interesting. I looked further into the willpower part. The model you referenced is the ego depletion idea from the late 1990s. It claimed self-control draws on a limited resource that gets used up, with the prefrontal cortex burning glucose, so later attempts at control suffer. Later studies with thousands of people failed to replicate the effect, and the glucose link does not match what we now know about stable brain energy use. Current views treat willpower more as a cost-benefit calculation across connected brain networks.
Exactly. I once just tracked calories without even restricting them and dropped fifteen pounds. My body would not let me go further without extra effort because that would push past my natural range.
Glad you caught my point. I never said GLPs are cheating. I'm on this forum and using Reta myself. I was just showing that the constant push to exercise the weight off makes no sense. Now when people ask how the weight is coming off I just answer "drugs."
What? Pretty much everything we're discussing is either a medication or a supplement that can reduce the need for medication. Of course I believe in medicine.
There's a big gap between someone relatively lean who just wants to shed the ten holiday pounds and people dealing with metabolic problems or other issues that make weight loss nearly impossible. You can accept the basic science of CICO while recognizing that the output side is not the same for everyone and some need modern tools to reach better health.
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